(Start of a new book).

Previously Raymond Pattison wrote about his ten years as a monk in India. Then about spiritual matters with foundation spiritual philosophy derived from ancient Indian writings. After leaving India in 1976 Raymond became a mental health professional, qualifying in 1980.,

In the previous book Therapeutic Journey to Self-Realisation there was a focus on traditional Spirituality connected with some mental health perspectives. Some writing was about therapy involving depression, anxiety and addiction, etc., using the labels of mental health disorders. The preferred view was that mental health is inclusive in our Journey as a Waymarker on ourroute.It doesn’t define us, only advises where we are. (Mental health in its entirety is inseparable from life in its entirety).

Now only realisation and enlightenment are sought as this new books outcome. If we have a higher state of being both spiritual and live in the world, as both human and transcendental, then we are:

Practically Enlightened or Realistically Realised

For this book we meet Alex who contacted me via my website, to better follow his spiritual path with some advice about practices, Alex also was dealing with some long standing issues – especially severe anxiety. However we quickly established a weekly “chat” where we placed mental health into the context of the wider picture of real spiritual practice which transcends all of Life and the Universe.

Here (in following blogs), are partial transcripts of what we said followed by some summaries, plus comments.

The transcripts may have a note on who is the speaker.

(The summaries are AI generated)!!

N.B. Summaries relate to the complete conversation

Discussion no 1

A

I am recording this one, by the way, I’m recording it now. Ah, good, good, that’s fine. From now on I’m recording whatever we say. Great, because this is what I want to put in. The world is mad about medication and people are looking for… A quick fix. A quick fix, I want that, a quick fix. In fact, it is…?

In fact, the medication brings more side effects than helping. Yeah.

R

Those are the words that go in first as the introduction. And that’s about five or six pages. This is what we say. About spirituality, but start with why the world is mad about medication. People are seeking a quick fix. And then you say something about the reality of that. And then I say, I agree with you. And then you talk and then maybe I talk and then maybe you talk. It doesn’t really matter. We capture everything. Yeah. And then it goes into a word doc. It’s human nature to fix things quickly. That’s the kind of thing we want to say. And the direction. We’re not anti or against medication. We say, well, there is a way to avoid medication when it’s possible. Or minimize medication. Yeah. I did write a book quite a long time ago called spirituality and depression, because theoretically it seemed that I had a chronic depression since I was a teenager. And I wrote that book and I’ve removed it from Amazon because I thought, no I want to focus more on spiritual practice. Perhaps I might resurrect the manuscript. That might be interesting to have a look at.

I’m against some of the labels about mental illnesses that are not really illnesses. Yeah. I thought maybe I had something , even when I was a monk, I thought I must have been depressed to be sitting on my butt for years and years doing nothing and absolutely no interest in life. What was wrong with me? And then when I came back to England, I thought, well, that was stupid. Why did I do that? Something was badly wrong with me. But now, I realize there was nothing wrong with me. I was the sane one. But it took me a long time to realize I was sane and not insane. So I can talk about my own journey a little bit if needed. Well, we can talk about that. I can also read some of the stuff from that manuscript. I can pull it up.

I wrote about the higher power and attaining the high power. Yeah well we generalise that it’s not religion we’re talking about. Spiritual higher power. We’re not saying Buddhism or any religions are not spiritual.

We’re putting all this into a series of discussions. That’s the introduction. It’s what we’re talking about. Yeah, why bother? Why should we make something, and not just take it as it is. We’ve decided this would be something we want to do. Why not? Yeah, Why do people need to bother about going enlightened?

Well, why not getting to being enlightened, and understanding everybody and everything in life? Well, I can understand why, because it’s bloody hard when you start to do enlightenment, then your troubles really start. As I said before, people might come and talk to me and say, the bottom has dropped out of my world and everything is terrible. I’m at rock bottom. And I say, well, don’t talk to me because I just make it ten times worse. Because once you get to that point and somebody says, well, you need to do this and this and this and this. Well, wait a minute. I’m at the end of my line. No, no. You’re at the beginning, not at the end of the line. You’re at the beginning of the line. And now you need to get real and do G-O-D. Good Orderly Direction. Not God. God. You need to start functioning. That’s it. End of story. Plus, get some instruction.

The spiritual instruction is a mantra, a meditation, read some books Do this do that, you know – talk to the Buddha, talk to the Jesus, talk to the Goddess – whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do it’s up to you. I’m not prescribing.

A

What’s at the root? There’s so many reasons why we need uh to go spiritual because of the double split experiment, which confirms that awareness itself turns over the object properties – changes the object properties. So turning on the camera and observing the photon or electron changes the property of electron from wave to the particle. This is what happens in our body when we are witness. For example, when I witness my pain, when I witness my tension, without really any thoughts, it goes away. It changes the properties. This is scientific proof of the need of ability to be aware or pay attention. 100% attention. So by paying attention, we change the property of the human or whatever it is. That’s right. It just changes. That’s all it is. 100% attention. When you’re in the witness state, you’re seeing it.

R

This is the interesting thing. You’re quite right. The properties of what you’re witnessing start to alter. Alter. People don’t understand that. They think, oh, we’re just witnessing it. No. And that’s the end of it. No, we’re witnessing, and there’s no interruption and we may think there’s no power involved. Yes, there is power involved. Because when we witness, we then become the power, the higher power. And when we do that, the universe starts to alter its function. That’s how it is. And here’s the key. If you witness,s it becomes magic. When you partially do it, it’s not working. When you judge, when you resist, it’s witnessing itself as a fear.

A

Like I’m witnessing my panic. I’m witnessing panic with not really even any thoughts. It’s not true. I was witnessing and had not even one issue that something is wrong.

R

I’m trying to think of a word here. You know when you change iron into gold? What’s the word for that? Do you know? Yes, transmutation. Transmutation. There’s another word as well. Base metal into gold. There’s another word. Anyway, transmutation. And that’s what we do when we come in the witness state in our true being.

We think, well, it’s all over now. We’re just going to sit in our cave and live on bread and water and nobody want to talk to us. But actually, suddenly the world starts to come to us and we start to get things and things start to happen. And I think, well, where did that come from? Well, this is transmutation because we’ve gone past our mundane being.

Alchemy. That’s the word I’m thinking of. Alchemy. Alchemy. Alchemy. Yes. And people say, I want to do alchemy. Well, you can’t do alchemy. You have to stop doing everything and get to rock bottom. Then you start to suffer. Then you really suffer. And then you completely suffer. And then suddenly it changes.

A

What happened to all that? It just seemed to have gone somewhere. I don’t know. It feels I feel quite nice, actually. Happy, happy, happy. And that’s the bizarre nature of this business. It’s not painful. Well, it is. Sorry, it’s not. The end isn’t painful. The process is painful at times. Seems to be. We’re not eliminating pain. It seems to be painful. Yeah. But we’re eliminating suffering. Yeah.

R

Yeah. We don’t need to suffer from the pain. We might be in withdrawal from whatever, anything. I’m not talking about drugs and alcohol, just talking about withdrawal from the ego based human nature. Look what the world is going with the politics and stuff. It’s seriously wrong. It’s not going to get better. Nobody in charge. Well, they think they’re in charge, but that’s another ego issue. The people in charge have got big egos, so that’s why they’re in charge.

And all they can do is make things worse, really. You know, the Genghis Khans, the Stalin’s, the Hitler’s and the modern day ones in Russia and all over the world. America, of course. But they think they’re doing good and good on them. You know, it’s kind of irrelevant as far as we’re concerned. The world will go wherever it’s going. And I’m not in charge of that. Somebody is.

A

I think the core principle is to open up to the general public to the idea that what is partial awareness, what is

R

Oh, yeah. That’s a good idea. That’s the key because, and it’s not hard work. No. It’s just understanding who they are. Well, my last book, Therapeutic Journeys to Self-Realization, was about partial understanding. It was all about partial understanding because then you get to the understanding and then you can go to some of my other book, which were just purely off the wall, you know. Jjust about being some Being. You’ve got to have the partial understanding firs. it seems it’s  a stage> People don’t want that they want it all now as they don’t like doing stage. Sorry about that but you’ve got to do it in stages.

When you spend everything you’ve you return to the religion and that’s the solution. Well it can be a partial solution and that’s all rigth. It’s on the way – it’s on the pathway. There’s nothing wrong with religions if you’re just working through them for a spiritual purpose.

Religion and spirituality are not the same. I believe they’re different. They’re interconnected, though. Very much so. Because people who are spiritual usually have dabbled in lots of religions. I have. I’ve dabbled in all of them to some degree. And quite a big degree. But I’ve been immersed in some of them. And I’ve come out of them as well.

And we’re not about cults or anything. We’re here about delivering the purpose of us as human beings. What’s the purpose and who we are? This understanding helps to get where we want to get. That seems to be the way it’s designed. I mean, I do have a religious idea of a Goddess who produces this Maya. This illusory thing and she’s in charge of it in terms of energy or Shakti. So i have some ideas, connections and practices, because i do see there is some passageway or journey. You do you do your diploma or certificate and then your degree and then your master’s, and then your phd – there is some sequence in the universe for it all also.

And similarly, it seems to be progressive in this spiritual practice. And some religious perspectives have been useful for me. Still are. I mean, I do them because I like them. I like doing my prayers to the Goddess. That’s it. There’s no other reason now. It’s how your brain interprets. Yeah. I’m not doing it for any reason anymore. I just do it because I like doing it. And I have a feeling that makes me feel good. And it’s better than drugs. They say, Marx said, religion is the opium of the masses. Well, for me, religion is the medication of the masses. It’s been my medication at times. And if it works, I’ll take it. I’ll take medication anyway for my bladder, for my cancer. I’ll take medication. So I’m not going to complain. It’s just what I do.

A

Several times in the last week, I created this bliss, this joy by just focusing my mind, rewiring the brain cells, the brain neurons. Neuroplasticity is not new. Neuroplasticity is achieved only through a higher power so that’s another fac. Neuroplasticity and it’s not something that can be done overnight it’s something that can be something that your consciousness can control the mind and the brain to produce new neurons

R

Yeah. Which means we are in control. We can be. We can be. We can do a lot of things about control when we give up control. That’s the weird thing about all this. To have given up our control, we have a devotion or we have a pathway, a surrender, and suddenly we have some control. Where did that come from? Interesting. All right.

So I think we should take this, what we’ve got so far, as it is. Just take it as it is. The introduction to how we come to say we’re going to do these discussions about Why Spirituality? And that’s the end of the intro.

A

I am searching for a quick solution for the childhood traumas. Well, childhood traumas don’t actually exist, just as your life doesn’t exist and my life doesn’t exist. And why it doesn’t exist is because tomorrow or the day after, it won’t exist. That’s the reality, isn’t it? And after this conversation, I will give up on searching for the quick fix. Because understanding the problem is not going to be that.

But that’s nature. I feel like, you know, when I talk to people and there’s trouble, you’ve got to sort out the house or jobs or money. It’s all like, let’s get this sorted, have a quick fix and get a better situation and do this and go there and talk to these people and have friends and all of that. Some of them are quite nice and, you know, life can be quite nice and I can think, see visions of my past. I think it was terrible. But actually, I am only the witness of this. I just am. It’s just going on. And it doesn’t go on because it doesn’t really, really exist because it doesn’t exist. The reality is it won’t exist. Tomorrow it’ll be different. It’ll be gone. And when you’re dead, where will it go?

R

Where will your traumas be? Well, apparently we come back and get reincarnated. Or you might go to heaven and hell. But talk about reincarnation, because then you might come back and do your traumas again and again. And that’s quite a serious business. So that’s why we need to sort this business out of all our experience in one package where we are awake, enlightened, realized.

So we’re no longer needing to sort anyone out, judge anyone, make things better with our partner or a friend or our parents or anything. It’s not like we’re saying, I don’t want to talk to you or go away. We’re not doing that at all. We’re just saying, fine, I will participate to help you if I can and be nice and friendly. Hello, good morning. Oh, yes. What happened to you? You know, I’ve been a counsellor and a therapist and I listen to people and I don’t say to them, shut up. Do I? I don’t do that. I listen. I take attention and I say, well, have you tried this? Maybe “what do you want to do about that”? That’s all good stuff. So it’s not about being a nasty, grumpy old man. It’s about realising its all good.

A

Sorry, it is all nonsense. But I’m not going to tell people you are talking nonsense to me. I don’t do that.

R

That’s an interesting point of view. Because it isn’t actually nonsense for them. And when I’m in my space talking to people, it isn’t nonsense to me. It’s all real. I’m driving a car and somebody’s cutting in and I’m going, well, why do you do that? It’s not nonsense to me. But it is. Ultimately, it doesn’t mean anything because it doesn’t really exist, so when you say nonsense that’s not a really good word. I believe in the Goddess and some sort of creating something. I don’t know what it is but nonsense is not right because it’s still divine. That nonsense is still divine but we have to get to the point of nonsense to realize the nonsense is divine. yeah you get to “it’s nonsense it’s not real it’s not true it’s whatever”.

And then when you’ve done that, then you can start to see, oh, it’s actually divine. It’s God. G-O-D. Good orderly direction. And I need to be nice to people. Helpful, kind. It’s my service at all times. Always. Forever. Even if I feel totally selfish and I say, piss off. I don’t like you anymore. I don’t want to listen to your crap anymore. Go away. Leave me alone. No!.

A

I agree. It’s still divine. I agree. It’s still divine. Most of the books and most of the methods I learn at the end have a simple solution. Just allow it to be. Allow it and to accept it. Accept it. Fully accept it. As divine.

R

And also do your best to be in good orderly direction, & be kind and caring. Even if you feel, well I do often, I am a grumpy old man. I’m an old man and sometimes I’m grumpy. That’s how it is. Sorry but I recognize that and I see It and I think, “uh oh not good not good not good be nice be nice”.

A

Coming back a little bit to the quick fix myself, it was a hard for & the decision. I made right now. Not to search for any more answers. Go back to the childhood and understand why it happened. Try to change those memories.

It’s a bad dream. Stop. Get out of the dream. Sit. Do Om Shanti Shanti. Move on. Move to your Shanti space. This is like I’ve got indigestion. Take an antacid. Do something about it. We don’t want it.

Dialog continues for 20 minutes

Summary

The dialogue between Alex and another speaker reflects on personal experiences with life’s challenges, mental health, and the search for enlightenment. The conversation touches on the burdens of modern technology, the struggle between spirituality and ego, and the limitations of medication for mental health issues. They discuss the potential of mantras and sound as therapeutic tools, emphasizing the importance of attention and consciousness in dealing with pain and anxiety. The exchange reveals a shared understanding of the complexities of human experience and the ongoing journey toward self-awareness and enlightenment.

Key Insights

    The pressures of modern life, including technology and anxiety, significantly impact mental health, especially among children.

    Medication can be a temporary solution but often fails to address underlying issues; alternative practices like mantras may offer deeper healing.

    Enlightenment is not merely a goal but a state of being that involves navigating attachment and desire.

    The importance of being present and aware in daily life can lead to a more fulfilling existence, transcending the distractions of modernity.

    The journey toward self-discovery and understanding can involve exploring various spiritual practices, including sound therapy and Kundalini yoga.

Frequently Asked Questions

What role do mantras play in mental health?

Mantras can help regulate thoughts and emotions, providing a grounding practice that may alleviate anxiety and stress.

How can one achieve enlightenment?

Enlightenment is not a destination but a continual process of self-awareness, understanding detachment, and being present in the moment.

Why do many people feel overwhelmed in today’s technological society?

The rapid evolution of technology contributes to increased anxiety and feelings of disconnection, particularly among younger generations.

Is medication effective for everyone dealing with mental health issues?

While some individuals benefit from medication, it often only addresses symptoms rather than the root causes of mental health challenges, making holistic approaches valuable.

Introduction & Personal Well-being: The speakers exchange greetings and discuss their states of well-being, revealing personal struggles while acknowledging the everyday exhaustion of life.

    Praying and Suffering: One speaker shares a thought about the relationship between prayer, suffering, and personal choice, suggesting a desire to relinquish suffering.

    Editing and Practical Guides: The duo reflects on previous editing tasks and discusses the potential of their material, with one speaker proposing a practical guide based on their experiences.

    Mental Health and Children: They express concern about rising anxiety in children due to technology, indicating a need for strategies in the mental health sector to address these issues.

    Funding and Mental Health Resources: The conversation touches on societal expectations regarding mental health resolutions, questioning the efficacy of written materials in catalyzing real change.

    Writing and Motivation: One speaker admits to losing drive toward writing but acknowledges the importance of continuing to collect and discuss their conversations.

    Spiritual Practices and Enlightenment: They advocate for spiritual practices over ego-driven actions and recognize the complexity of conveying enlightenment to children.

    Interactions with Spiritual Deities: The dialogue hints at the existence of higher wisdom and how children should not bear the weight of burdensome expectations.

    Sound, Mantras, and Relaxation: Discussion shifts to how sound and mantras can be therapeutic, promoting relaxation and mental balance as an alternative to reliance on medications.

    Psychological Perspectives on Medication: They delve into medication’s utility, contrasting it with holistic practices and the shortcomings of traditional mental health treatments.

    Attachments and Enlightenment: Reflection on how attachments hinder enlightenment showcases the dynamic nature of self-discovery as an ongoing journey rather than a fixed aim.

    Daily Life and Practices: The speakers emphasize the need for presence in daily activities and how sound therapies may foster a connection with the self.

Highlights

    🎤 Exploration of Personal Struggles: The dialogue candidly discusses the emotional burdens of modern life.

    🌟 Mantras as Therapeutic Tools: Emphasizes the potential of sound and mantras in mental health management.

    🌈 Societal Impact on Well-Being: Highlights the rising mental health issues linked to technological advancements.

    🚪 Complexity of Enlightenment: Recognizes the ongoing journey towards self-awareness and the implications of attachment.

Multi-angle Analysis

    Mental Health Perspective: The conversation reveals a clear awareness of mental health’s evolving nature and the limitations of conventional treatments.

    Spirituality vs. Modern Life: The juxtaposition of spiritual enlightenment against modern distractions illustrates a tension that many individuals navigate today.

    Childhood Anxiety: The emphasis on children’s mental health issues presents a vital aspect of societal improvement, calling for innovative solutions.

    Role of Technology: Their critique draws attention to the pervasive influence of technology, pushing for a re-evaluation of its integration into daily life and mental wellness.

    Self-Discovery Process: The discussion about personal experiences emphasizes that the journey toward enlightenment is individual and varies significantly between people.

Professional Terminology

    Kundalini Yoga: A spiritual practice that aims to awaken spiritual energy through meditation, chanting, and breath control.

    Mantra: A word or sound repeated to aid concentration in meditation and promote mental well-being.

    Parasympathetic Nervous System: A part of the autonomic nervous system responsible for relaxation and recovery within the body.

    Trauma: A distressing experience that can lead to lasting emotional or psychological effects.

Conclusion

The conversation between Alex and the other speaker presents a deep dive into the complexities of mental health in the modern age. It articulates the struggles faced by individuals navigating technology’s impact and emphasizes the pursuit of enlightenment in a world filled with distractions. By exploring alternative practices, such as the use of