Session 2

From Why Spirituality?

(Start of a new book).

Intro

Previously Raymond Pattison wrote about his ten years as a monk in India. Then about spiritual matters with foundation spiritual philosophy derived from ancient Indian writings. After leaving India in 1976 Raymond became a mental health professional, qualifying in 1980.

,

In the previous book Therapeutic Journey to Self-Realisation there was a focus on traditional Spirituality connected with some mental health perspectives. Some writing was about therapy involving depression, anxiety and addiction, etc., using the labels of mental health disorders. The preferred view was that mental health is inclusive in our Journey as a Waymarker on ourroute.It doesn’t define us, only advises where we are. (Mental health in its entirety is inseparable from life in its entirety).

Now only realisation and enlightenment are sought as this new books outcome. If we have a higher state of being both spiritual and live in the world, as both human and transcendental, then we are:

Practically Enlightened or Realistically Realised

For this book we meet Alex who contacted me via my website, to better follow his spiritual path with some advice about practices, Alex also was dealing with some long standing issues – especially severe anxiety. However we quickly established a weekly “session” where we placed mental health into the context of the wider picture of real spiritual practice which transcends all of Life and the Universe.

Here (in following blogs), are partial transcripts of what we said followed by some summaries.

The transcripts may have a note on who is the speaker.

(The summaries are AI generated)

N.B. Summaries relate to the complete conversation. The eventual book will contain the complete transripts.

Discussion session 2

R

Hello. Namaste, Alex. Namaste. How are you?

A

I’m well. I’m well. My life’s totally gone upside down, but I’m well.

They say praying is necessary, but suffering is an option. Oh, that’s good. In that case, I never knew about that. I think I’ll give it up. No more suffering, thanks. Gone. I give it up. I gave it up.

R

(Regarding a previous question). So this bit is not a practical guide, what we’re collecting as we’re speaking. And what I wrote in my therapy journey book is actually a practical guide as far as I could do it. That’s my contribution to that cause. I don’t have any other guide in mind at the moment. I haven’t got a simplified form anyway.

 And all of the writings I get come from within anyway – the Goddess inspired business. So if I started writing on my own viewpoint, I’d probably come up with psychobabble. Psychological, mental health, get well soon, self-help book. I thought about that. I’d like quite like to do a self-help book that sells 20 million copies.

A

Where the world is currently going, it’s a seriously wrong direction. A lot of people in childhood, especially children, they get very, very anxious about the technology, the AI and cybersecurity. There’s a lot of literature and people in mental health writing all about that and trying to change that and offer ways to deal with that.

R

There is a question about funding for what’s available. And if you just write something and say, oh, here’s a book, this will solve it all, people won’t buy it and read it anyway. They want the government to send them psychiatrists and top dogs to go and sort it out for them.

But anyway, we should still collect what we’re talking about, because I think we could certainly edit it down which might have a bit of making sense.

A

Well, there is a simple solution, of course. Go past the ego. Don’t be an ego. But you can’t tell a four-year-old that or a seven-year-old, you know, who’s very anxious and doesn’t want to go to school. It doesn’t happen that way unless that seven-year-old, already has spiritual awakening, which some beings have been that way and have gone on to become like Ramana Maharish. In south India he was quite famous, and there’s been a lot of books written about him. He was the one that said ask who am I. He sat he sat peacefully for many years and many thousands of people went to see him. He didn’t offer anything complicated he just said well this is the answer just do it. (Ask – who am I)

A

 A simple answer for children would be-  it’s not all up to them because children get really depressed or anxious or sick when they take all the burden on themselves. Yeah, it’s very true these days. A lot of anxiety in children. And it’s actually, as a matter of fact, it’s not up to them. Yeah. It’s up to the parents. Or universe, or a god, or a society to start doing things differently which is not ego human based, but is more based on the divine or the consciousness. Truth of all beings Something along those lines. Matter has a base structure. There’s no matter – there’s a number of frequencies as well and you can ally those frequencies to chakras, or you can ally them to prosperity or wellness or knowledge.

R

There’s different chakras sounds online & I’ve been listening to some of them as they’re quite soothing. I sometimes put on my headphones and listen to things out there on the internet. You can just tap into people doing those singing bowls and gongs. People chanting Aum. There’s a lot of Aum chanting on the internet. I have some on my phone which I look at quite a lot. I also look at the 396 frequency. It’s more for the bladder area and I’ve need that! Anyway I keep these and now and then if Ii can’t get to sleep  I’ll put it on and then I’m gone.

I want to do another book, a different book, not just my book, but another book with joint discussions. I think you should make some comments afterwards.

But you’re quite right about how distracted life is. When I was in India, for instance, I had no books, no watch, no newspapers. I did that deliberately for quite a long time. Years.  I got very bored – sort of.

Have you read about sensory deprivation where people sit in a room or a tub or something? There’s no sound and no light, no nothing for long periods of time. And apparently people become very psychotic and very depressed and crazy.So if you do this, what I was doing, which you’re supposed to do as a yogi or somebody in a cave in India. if you do this, you might go crazy. I wasn’t bored. I was super bored, because I was in the body. And yet there was nothing happening. Zero. I didn’t usually get many thoughts. Thoughts disappeared.

I started thinking that this doesn’t seem to be useful. That was a thought I had. I never had thoughts for a long time because with all that nothing going on, my mind stopped working thoughts. But then all of a sudden I became quite restless, with a particular thought. “I must get out of here. I must get back to England. I must participate in the world of everything”. It was an impact. Something happened. But I also got a feeling like, all right, Raymond, you’ve finished this task. This experience is finished. There is no purpose in doing it like this anymore. You now need to be enlightened in the world. Because I could sit there in the cave with no thoughts and It was still just consciousness. Well, it’s not quite the same thing, being enlightened and being empty. Yeah, not quite. But it was that emptiness, with that sound I was talking about. Anyway, the long story is, I felt that to be properly enlightened, you have to be able to be in the world, if need be, but not of it. That’s called that’s called the Paramhansa – the Great Swan. The swan sits on the water but it doesn’t get wet and in mythology the swan can have a glass of milk and wate,r and it just drinks out the milk and leaves the water.

Param is “great” & Hansa is “swan”. It’s a title given to yogis who have some enlightenment because they are sitting on the world, the Samsara, the Maya, but they’re not affected by it. And they can suck out the truth and leave behind the rubbish. Drink the milk. Paramahansa.

I think all this stuff I’ve been doing for many, many years has been about seeing through it all, being in this so-called world, but seeing through it or walking through it without being attached to it anymore.

A

Well, put in this way, everybody is enlightened. They’re just not aware of it.

R

If you look at enlightenment as in the future, you will never get it. It’s already here. Because I believe that the reason is attachment. And in India I was enlightened in a certain sphere, place, and certain level. But I still had attachment. So I had to come back into the world because I didn’t really believe that life was suffering. I thought life could be fun. I’m bored here. I’ll go and have fun and I’ll have all the things I want to achieve. So even though I was behaving like a monk, inside I was still full of desire and attachment.

And that’s why saying I was enlightened was of no value. No, well, it has value, but it had no particular ongoing value at that time. I had to move out of being a monk and go back into the world to work through my desires, my attachments. Some of the authors or people who write books about enlightenment, they say, on the question what is enlightenment, they say – it’s just being fully conscious &  fully aware of the present moment. But you can’t do that if you’re attached to all the things around attachment because the focus will always go out into those things and experiences and the ego will create its own dimension and identity.

The ego, the consciousness is flowing out of the heart, It’s all going out and the mind comes out and with it, the desire and attachment to have this, have that, be this, be that. Until you get what the Buddha says – all life is suffering. You then stop and say, well, no, I don’t want to be reborn anymore. Done. I do not want anything ever again.

But people don’t want to do that. So you’re asking me to teach somebody how to do this when they don’t want to do it. It’s not going to work. Most people do not want to be enlightened. Unfortunately, it’s not a business of doing. It’s a business of being.

A

Right now, I have a very strong pain in my stomach. All my stomach is tense because I was on the way of doing something. I couldn’t log in. I was working on a computer. And I had this very, very tense stomach. Yeah, it happens. I get that. What I’m doing now is just putting attention to it. Yeah. And I separate myself from the pain. Pain is pain. I’m talking with you. I haven’t changed anything, but I’m aware of it. Put attention to it. That’s all it needs to get done. Put attention, fullest attention to the pain. That’s all it is. That’s all you can do. That’s great. I think, though, going back to saying, oh, what can we offer to other people?

R

The reality is other people don’t necessarily want to be enlightened. They can say, oh, yes, I want to follow a teacher and they can follow a teacher for 50 years, but they actually want to follow the teacher and do their business. They don’t want to become like the teacher because they don’t like that lifestyle. They don’t want to be having to maybe give up something or other. I don’t know what, but they don’t. They want to be who they are. Most people, nearly everyone,

A

I was sceptical about doing mantra. Now, after I’ve seen the result, I’m doing it. And I see it’s the best thing. It transcends the ego. Because when you do it, you are saying I am sound, I am not ego.

 but you’re doing it forcefully because you’re doing this mantra and it’s mechanical i know that it’s mechanical and i force myself to do it sometimes you know if i had a bad dream or something at night i get weird dreams still and i i wake up and i stop breathe mantra done don’t analyze it don’t go back to it not interested

R

Most of the time a lot of life things go on like with your computer stuff. Because I’ve done it for so long a voice pops up and says stop –  om hari om, or whatever mantra I do it. It interrupts me. It’s almost like there’s another being taking over charge to make sure I’m okay

R

Habit is habit, mechanical habit, but it’s a good one. Whereas other people say, well, no, I’ll have a pill or I’ll have a glass of beer or whatever, or I’ll watch a film. You know, that’s another way. But this way is different. And again, people say, I don’t want to do this. It’s boring. And yes, I know it’s boring. I sat those years being very bored, but that had a great purpose at the time. Huge purpose.

Because I understood that I could be in a soundless, mindless, egoless place when I wasn’t distracted. Now I’m learning to do the same thing, even if I’m distracted by a dream or my computer isn’t working or I do some work. Yeah, the mantra helps me ultimately to achieve that.

The whole world is spending billions of dollars on prescribed medication related to mental illness. If it works well great, but that’s not how its seems to be going currently for a lot of people. A mantra, is a another option replacement, to create “better mind” – no strings attached. it’s free.

psychologists, are using these techniques now to try and balance the two brains or the left and right and they’re using it for trauma. somebody’s “discovered” it. But I think the mantra does that anyway. Why discover something when it’s already been discovered? Millions, thousands of years ago, the method, the means to deal with all trauma, which is all of life, the whole life, the whole universe – is already available. Oh, no, you can’t get paid to do that. You have to have something made up.You have to have something that’s been made up by top dog professionals. This is the therapy model we’ll do. And you have to do this

Meditation and mantra, addresses the root of the problem, not just the symptom. The medication is working with the symptom. The root of all trauma is “Life and the Universe”. It’s traumatic, but it’s traumatic because we’ve perceived it as such quite deliberatel,y because also we’ve desired to get into it, to get something for ourselves, our egos desire.

And yes, then we realize eventually it’s painful, it’s suffering. And then maybe we become nuns and monks or whatever. We can talk to talk to Raymond, maybe. And as I said before, people come and talk to me and say, oh, the bottom is falling out of my world. And I say, well, don’t talk to me. I just make it worse. Yeah. Oh, thank you. I’m the last person to talk to. Yeah.

I’ll give you a mantra. Go away. Do this for the next five years. Sit on your butt and repeat the mantra eight hours a day. Then come and say hello to me. Oh, no, no, I’m not going to do that. That’s stupid. It is stupid. It seems stupid.

I think the psychology business of balancing out the brain is starting to click a bit in there. They’re starting to understand you can actually manipulate the forces going on in the brain. The mantra can do that. Absolutely. Yeah. As much as you want it. And you can transcend now, as I do when I’m driving along and I get a bit worried about it. Oh, this feels good. I’m transcendental when driving a car. Yeah.

Session two transcript continues after summary……

Summary for session 2

## Summary

The article presents a dialogue between two individuals reflecting on personal struggles, mental health challenges, and the quest for enlightenment amidst the pressures of modern life. They discuss the nuances of technology’s impact, the difficulties faced in achieving mental well-being, and the roles of medication and spiritual practices in addressing these issues. The conversation particularly emphasizes the therapeutic potential of mantras and sound healing, suggesting that true enlightenment involves continuous self-awareness and an understanding of one’s attachments in life.

## Paragraph Summaries

1. **Introduction of Characters and Personal Struggles:** The conversation opens with informal greetings followed by Alex sharing his life’s turmoil, yet expresses a sense of well-being. They both acknowledge the tiring nature of life.

2. **Reflection on Suffering and Writing:** The speakers discuss the nature of suffering and their thoughts on compiling their discussions into a book, emphasizing the difficulty in categorizing their material.

3. **Mental Health Concerns:** They express concern about the rising anxiety among children due to technology and the misalignment of available mental health resources.

4. **Personal Reflections on Writing:** The dialogue continues with reflections on the speaker’s previous writing efforts. They express a lack of motivation for continued writing.

5. **Discussion on Enlightenment and Spiritual Practices:** The speakers analyze their spiritual journey and share thoughts on detachment as a key element to true enlightenment.

6. **The Role of Mantras:** They discuss mantras as an effective way to tune into mental and emotional states; promoting mindfulness and presence.

7. **The Nature of Modern Medicine:** There’s a critique of modern medicinal approaches to mental health, claiming that they often overlook fundamental issues.

8. **Final Reflections:** The conversation concludes with their intention to continue their discussions and write more about spiritual practices, demonstrating a keen interest in exploring deeper connections to wellness and enlightenment.

## Highlights

– 🌟 **Impact of Technology on Mental Health:** They note the detrimental effects of rapid technological change on children’s anxiety levels.

– 🧘‍♂️ **Therapeutic Potential of Mantras:** The discussion emphasizes the role of mantras in achieving mindfulness and regulating emotions.

– 💡 **Critique of Pharmaceutical Solutions:** Acknowledging the limitations of medication, they mention alternative methods for mental wellness.

– 🌌 **Journey of Enlightenment:** The concept of enlightenment is explored as a process of understanding attachment and focusing on present awareness.

– 📚 **Need for Accessible Healing Practices:** They stress the importance of providing practical resources for mental health beyond traditional medical advice.

## Multi-Angle Analysis

– **Mental Health Context:** The dialogue offers a unique perspective on mental wellness, combining personal experience with broader societal issues, particularly concerning the youth’s struggles in modernity.

– **Spirituality:** It highlights the relevance of spirituality in mental health discussions, advocating for practices that foster a deeper connection with oneself.

– **Technology’s Role:** The speakers critique how technology, while beneficial, can lead to significant psychological distress, underscoring the need for balance.

– **Pharmaceutical Limitations:** They offer a critical view of conventional treatments, suggesting that many fail to address core issues, calling for more holistic approaches.

– **Personal Growth:** The process of self-discovery and improvement is a central theme, reflecting their ongoing journey towards understanding and enlightenment.

## Technical Terminology Explained

– **Mantra:** A sound, word, or phrase repeated to aid concentration in meditation and promote positive mental states.

– **Kundalini Yoga:** A form of yoga emphasizing awakening energy at the base of the spine for spiritual growth.

– **Attachment:** In a psychological context, it refers to the emotional bond that can influence one’s actions and feelings toward achieving happiness and fulfillment.

– **Enlightenment:** A state of being or awareness characterized by insight and understanding beyond ordinary perception, often viewed as a goal in spiritual traditions.

## Key Insights

– 🌍 **Technological Anxiety:** Modern life’s pace, driven by technology, exacerbates stress and anxiety levels, particularly in children. Society needs to address the emotional well-being of younger generations.

– 🌱 **Alternative Healing Practices:** The exploration of mantras and mindfulness offers potential alternatives to traditional medication, addressing mental health by fostering a holistic connection to self-awareness.

– ⚖️ **Enlightenment as a Journey:** Achieving enlightenment is depicted not as a destination but as an evolving journey filled with personal struggles, insights, and the ongoing battle with attachment.

– 🧠 **Balancing Mindfulness:** Understanding and managing one’s thoughts through focused attention can assist in alleviating emotional distress and enhancing the quality of mental health.

– 🏥 **Call for Accessible Resources:** There is a continuing need for practical guidance in addressing mental health beyond pharmaceutical solutions, underscoring the importance of community-supported practices.

## Thought-Provoking Questions

1. What role does technology play in shaping modern mental health issues?

   – Technology can exacerbate anxiety and disconnection, particularly among youth, as it creates overwhelming demands for attention and constant stimulation.

2. How effective are mantras as a tool for mental health?

   – Mantras can provide grounding, reduce anxiety, and align emotional states by fostering a sense of presence and awareness through repetition and focus.

3. Why do many individuals remain attached to their desires despite seeking enlightenment?

   – Human nature often ties self-worth and happiness to external desires; overcoming this attachment requires significant effort and transformation.

4. Can medication serve as a beneficial tool alongside holistic practices?

   – Yes, medication can provide necessary relief for some, particularly in acute situations, but should ideally be paired with holistic methods for long-term mental wellness.

5. What are the implications of viewing mental health solely through a pharmaceutical lens?

   – Relying solely on medication may mask symptoms rather than address underlying issues, neglecting the importance of lifestyle, spirituality, and personal growth.

6. How can everyday mindfulness practices enhance personal well-being?

   – Engaging in daily mindfulness helps cultivate awareness, reduces stress, and aids in navigating life’s complexities with a more balanced perspective.

7. In what ways can communities support mental health beyond clinical settings?

   – Communities can foster supportive environments by sharing resources, encouraging dialogue about mental wellness, and offering alternative healing practices.

8. What insights can diving deeper into one’s spiritual journey provide for overall mental health?

   – Exploring spiritual paths encourages understanding of personal attachments and helps individuals navigate emotional landscapes, leading to holistic healing.

## Conclusion

This dialogue encapsulates a candid exchange about personal struggles and the quest for inner peace and enlightenment in today’s fast-paced world. Both participants explore the significance of addressing mental health through both modern and traditional practices, particularly emphasizing mantras and mindfulness as crucial elements for self-awareness. The conversation encourages deeper contemplation on modern life’s demands, the efficacy of medication versus alternative healing practices, and the ongoing journey toward enlightenment as an accessible and transformational experience. As the speakers share their insights and experiences, they underscore the need for a more comprehensive, nurturing approach to mental health that incorporates spirituality, community, and self-awareness.